There’s this whole to-do over at the Wild Hunt about questions of identity and community, stirred up by the public conversion to atheism and rejection of paganism of a formerly prominent podcaster. The resulting conversation and spin-off blog posts have been great, even some of the ones I don’t agree with. It’s worthwhile to go follow that particular Internet bunny trail if “the Pagan community” means anything to you. I thought of adding my own two cents, but at this point any viewpoint on the subject I might express has already been put out there by someone or other. This is more of a meta-post on the whole thing.
One of the conversational threads that has come up is the existence, or lack thereof, of a “Pagan community.” The Pagan community has responded strongly both for and against its own existence. Another claim is the supposed academic weaknesses and anti-intellectual strains in this community (that might or might not exist.) Many brilliant people, some with academic degrees, have given well-thought-out responses both for and against the presence of intelligence and philosophical thought within this maybe-community. I think this is really funny, in a charming, oh-these-are-my-people sort of way. We can argue with depth and intelligence over whether or not we are shallow and stupid.
None of the complaints I have heard about Pagans – that we’re weird, silly, irrational, resistant to philosophical argumentation over heartfelt beliefs, fuzzy and imprecise in our theology – are at all exclusive to Paganism. That’s just what people are like. I happen to love weird. I’m practically a connoisseur of weird. I’d much rather have lunch with someone who wants to tell me all about the aliens who founded Atlantis than with someone who wants to talk about sports scores. There are people of every religion and no religion with beliefs equally as weird as anything a Pagan might subscribe to, and belief isn’t really the point, anyway. Irrational, illogical, emotional – yep, that’s everybody, to varying degrees. Since we are all (to my belief) humans, it’s not surprising that we act like humans. One of the things I love about Pagans is that we don’t feel nearly as shy about admitting our human weirdness. Some of us revel in it.
Pagans! I address you. Regardless of what your dad or your former pastor or your boss or that one professor might think, regardless of how the other PTA moms gossip about you, regardless of what Richard Dawkins might think, and regardless of what you believe or don’t believe about the Gods – you are wonderful. Even if you can’t put together a cogent argument about your faith, or if you still haven’t figured out what to think of that god who keeps visiting, or if you call yourself Priestess Sparklepony and blow bubbles to the four quarters. I don’t care. I think you’re terrific. Even if you think I’m doing it wrong. I still would rather have you tell me why I’m not a Real Druid because I work with a four-element system than have a whole roomful of normal, rational people talk about whatever cheap plastic crap they just bought or what they saw on TV the other night. Seriously – I love you guys. You’re awesome.
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(The title of this post explained, if you don’t know the reference: Reading posts that decry the overall silliness, irrationality and wishy-washyness of Pagans made me think of Homer Simpson saying, “Everyone is stupid except me!” I couldn’t remember the episode, but I started giggling to myself after reading another of these posts and hearing Homer’s voice, so I googled it and was delighted to find that it’s from the episode “Homer the Heretic,” where Homer decides to stop going to church and renounce religion. He’s at home relaxing on the couch on a Sunday morning, feeling superior. This made me giggle even more.)
January 9, 2009 at 1:02 am
D’oh!(come on, that HAD to be said of course)
Though I agree, I actually skipped reading a few blog-feeds temporarily, until the hubris dies off here. I’m intrigued that the podcaster found Rationality to be a stronger draw than what I consider more “spiritual belief-based Paths”, but I think the whole thing is getting blown way out of proportion around the Pagan Blog-O’sphere.
We all follow our own Paths. We evolve and grow. That path is not mine, nor is it yours to push upon another.
I had a wry smile at first, but after the 14th blog entry about it and the debates that seemed to continue ad infinitum on comment-threads, I gave up.
To each our own.
I’m off to grab a donut for breakfast.
January 9, 2009 at 11:33 am
I’m *not* a part of the pagan community (because I’m a frakking hermit, for pete’s sake) but this corner of weirdness loves you back.
I just had a conversation similar to Maebius’ comment this morning with Memezors about why I believe in capital G god and he doesn’t and that’s all okay. Meme’s a Rational, too, I think. I like that we’re all different, and I like (generally) the pagans and communities I come in contact with. I just really like quiet.
Also, pagans and sciencey people have the same flavor to me a lot of times, the same kind of fun weirdnesses. They’re both likely to respond positively to Monty Python quotes, puns, and are flat out fun. Is it weird that I just think of science/rationality as another version of religion? The gods there are Truth, Proof, and Repeatability.
January 9, 2009 at 12:28 pm
It’s all kind of giving me a headache. Maybe because Deo and Mandy are people I’ve met in person, maybe because I’m more focused on the microcosm than the macrocosm (my own practice, my own community building ability or lack thereof as opposed to everyone else’s practice, everyone else’s ideas about community), but I just don’t see the big deal here. People leave all the time, and not just paganism but other religions, philosophies and practices. It happens. It isn’t an indictment of the pagan community – at least, I don’t think so.
I love pagans, too, but sometimes they make me want to take a Tylenol and a Calgon moment.
January 9, 2009 at 1:36 pm
Totally unrelated here, but I see many commenters on Nettle’s Blog that have funky “avatar” pictures that look very similar. Strange alien shape-things. (Mine is the Sorcerer’s Apprentice Micky)
Is there a common source for these I missed out there? *grin*
January 9, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Maebius,
I think that’s just WordPress’ new placeholder graphic set for people that don’t have WP accounts. I like it a lot better than the crap ones they had before, for sure!
January 9, 2009 at 3:00 pm
No, I’m wrong… I still have the crap graphics. Nettle, how did you get the aliens? I don’t see a place to change that. (sorry to go OT)
January 9, 2009 at 7:31 pm
Erik, if you go to “Discussion Settings” and scroll down, there are a couple of different choices for “Default avatar.” I have “Monster ID” checked, which gives the random squiggly monsters.
I agree that the discussion has gone past it’s sell-by date at this point – it has gone stale now – but it raised some issues to think on. I avoided injecting my Big Important Opinion into the whole thing because we already have plenty of that sort of thing out there, but I felt some unconditional love was in order. I might come back to some of those themes after everyone has forgotten about this, though.
Wren, if you made a big ol’ Venn diagram and put “Pagans” in one circle and “nerdy science people” in another, there would be a huge overlapping section. My theory about this is that the things that draw people to science and the things that draw people to paganism can be very similar – at heart, both strive for deep understanding of material reality.
January 12, 2009 at 1:37 pm
this weird pagan loves you back….for all the same reasons…..now back to the Wild Hunt for the latest update…lol
January 23, 2009 at 3:11 pm
Nettle,
Thanks – found it. I think I’m actually going to go the no-avatar route for the time being, but now if I change my mind I know where to go!
February 3, 2009 at 6:57 pm
As someone who’s just returned to paganism from a period of nonbelief (and was disheartened to hear that Deo’s Shadow had gone away), I’ve followed this event with some interest. Your post here really touches into my feelings on the matter – I don’t know if the gods and goddesses exist or not, and if they do I doubt they really care if ew believe in them or not, but choosing to believe makes the world a more fun, more interesting place.
February 22, 2009 at 12:53 pm
I have always been critical of Deo’s Shadow. I found his requests for donations when not producing any new content rather disingenuous at best. When questioned about this, I received an email basically telling me that they didn’t care about the show, their listeners. Of course they denied in the podcast because I posted their comments but i still have the email.. So who cares. I know the truth. They’re frauds and always have been.
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Wow do I ever cause havoc with my trackbacks! Argh. Please feel free to delete them.
And this comment.