(note – this is copied over from a post I made to the AODA Yahoo group as part of a discussion on the nature of magic. This is what I mean when I talk about doing magic – it’s not necessarily what other people mean when they talk about the same thing. )
If there is something in my life that I think needs to happen, I’ll go to the spirit (for me it’s nearly always either plant spirits, if it’s a health issue, or the fairies) that I think can help and ask for some aid. It’s always a request, never a demand, and sometimes the answer is “no.” Or “not yet.” And that’s OK. Once, when there was something I wanted very much, I pushed past the “no” and insisted on, or maybe begged for, the outcome I thought I wanted. So, I got it. It turned out to be the single worst experience of my entire life. Now I take “no” for an answer with gratitude. But often it’s “yes,” and then, well, stuff happens (ask me about the time I manifested an automobile…)
I don’t see it as symbolic – if I carry a bit of angelica root for protection, for instance, it’s not because the root symbolizes anything – it’s because it is a direct material connection to the protective spirit of the angelica plant. If I’m carrying the root, the spirit is with me, and that’s where the protection comes from. If it’s a root from an angelica plant that I planted and nurtured and talked with while it was growing, the spirit will be with me much more strongly than if I bought a root in a botanica. It’s the relationship that brings the power.
I don’t see the magic as coming from me at all – it comes through the ones I call on. What I’m responsible for are the relationships I’ve formed – the connections I’ve made and nurtured. That’s what comes through me. Any kind of ethical choices I make have to come from my own personal concept of virtue, but if I wanted to do something hateful or destructive, well, I’d have to make those relationships and I’m really not into that.
I’ve been told before that what I do isn’t really “magic” – that it’s really shamanism or theurgy or whatever other buzzy word of the day is going around – but I’m not sure I need a whole different word for it. Do I?
May 11, 2009 at 2:43 am
*nods* Sounds like a good definition to me.
(though it is really interesting to see the other replies in that AODA thread!)
My own (for those reading this blog and curious) is at this address:
http://everthorn.net/Musing/2009/05/magic_defined/?p=220
May 11, 2009 at 10:35 pm
It’s interesting to me that you wrote this. I’ve been thinking a lot about this topic the last few days and had considered a post of my own about it. I must be picking up the zeitgeist through the ether.
You were actually the person I thought of when I was considering asking someone about this. Would you mind a few questions?
1) Do you believe in chance? Does the fundamental nature of the universe include chaos and randomness? If so, how do you distinguish between answers to “prayer” and random occurrences?
2) What, if anything, makes your version of magick different than a christian who prays to god? Is it only a difference in who you’re supplicating? Would you say that Christians everywhere are practicing magick then?
3) If magick consists of praying or asking for intercession, why then all the other trappings? Why the ceremonies and meetings and dress and altars? Is it to put you in a state of mind to ask properly? Is it to put the intercessionary being in the proper mood? If so, why do you think you need to approach your higher power in a certain mindset or vice versa?
4) In your experience and estimation: Can magick produce any reproducible result? Is there any working or spell or prayer that always results in the same effect?
5) If the answer to 4 is no, then how do you personally determine whether something happening was caused by Magickal intervention or pure chance? I’m sure you are familiar with experiments on human pattern matching. Why do you think what you experience is magick and not chance or luck that anyone could have? Why do you think that some people get what they desire/need/want without prayer or intercession?
6) Does magick demand faith? If so why?
7) Would you agree with the statement “Magick is whatever you want it to be.” ?
8) If any type of prayer to any being/force/power is magick, would you say that everyone has access to magick to the exact same depth as everyone else? Do some people have more? if so why?
And lastly 9) I know in the past you have said that if someone else said they were seeing fairies you would want pictures before you believed, at the time, I believe that you said you recognized that you make the same claims. Basically you were saying that as far as other people’s claims of the supernatural you were a skeptic. (at least I think this is what you were saying, please correct me if I’m wrong.) So my question is, do you apply your skeptisism to your own experiences or do you accept them as they are? Was there a point when you did critically examine whether they could be something other than magick, whether pyscological, neurological, pysiological, etc?
I don’t want to give you homework or anything, but if you have time and if you feel like it I’d be really interested in hearing your thoughts on some of these.
I’m interested because when I was a christian, I was told to “have faith and pray and keep the tenets of the gospel” and my prayers would be answered. Oddly enough, I was told that the answers would be yes, no or not now. My question at the time was and still is, how does that differ from random chance? It seems I could replace god with a 3 sided die and still get the same kind of answers. Without some kind of direct manifestation how could I tell?
You know that I left my old faith, and now, looking into magick, It seems I’m finding more and more that there really isn’t any difference between my old faith and magick. I’m having a hard time seeing how they diverge aside from a few tenets. Am I missing something?
Your friend,
Meme
May 11, 2009 at 10:40 pm
Note: I hope the above is received in the spirit of honest seeking for answers and not as an accusation of any kind. You just feel like a safe place to ask questions that have been turning in my mind a long time. If my confusion offends please excuse me and don’t feel obligated to answer.
Oh, and that smiley with the sunglasses was supposed to be an “8″, I guess I accidentally hit a smiley face code.
Meme
May 11, 2009 at 11:05 pm
Hi Meme,
I think these are great (and challenging) questions, and I don’t feel at all offended. I’m just leaving a quick answer so you don’t wonder if my silence means I’m ignoring you or feeling pissy about the questions, but I might not have time in the next few days to answer them.
I’m wondering about point 9, though, because I don’t remember the context of the conversation – not saying I didn’t say it, because I say all sorts of things, but it doesn’t sound quite like what I think I might have meant. It’s more likely that I would have said something more like, if someone showed me a photo of a fairy, I wouldn’t believe it – you can’t photograph that sort of thing. Too much proof is more suspicious to me than not enough – someone says, hey, there’s fairies in my garden! I don’t question it – someone says, look at this photo of a fairy in my garden, I say, hmm. right.
But it’s also true that my ideas about some things have changed a lot over the past few years and maybe I did say something like that and meant it at the time. And maybe I was trying and failing to say something else, which I do a lot. One of the reasons I tend to stay on the quiet side.
May 11, 2009 at 11:28 pm
I think you are right about the “pictures of” now that you mention it. Ok, consider that retracted. Take your time answering please.
May 12, 2009 at 8:42 am
I read your post a couple of days ago, and it was challenging enough that I had to think about it for a couple of days. (Heh, now I have to read all the comments, too. I’ll save that one for later.)
Here’s the disclaimer: many years ago, Very Learn’ed and Specialized Important People told me that my brain was tragically flawed when compared to everyone else’s, and this is why I have trouble doing the things that other people think are simple. One of those Very Important People quietly took me aside and told me not to worry, though, because it meant there was lots of stuff I could do easily that other people find hard, and in this case, I’m talking about my ability to have firm beliefs in potentially contradictory things.
I think I have three definitions or ideas of what magic is, and I believe that any one of these are true and acceptable.
1. I think that when I do magic, what I’m doing is sweeping the path before the curling stone, kind of. I’m just clearing the way for the energy that is behind everything to go the way I hope it will. Remember at the beach, carving out ditches in the sand so the waves would fill them up? Just like that. Most of my housey magic is this way.
2. I think there is a kind of magic that is basically the transfer of personal energy. Everyone gets/draws/generates a certain amount of this same energy that’s behind everything. Sometimes you give some of yours to someone else. My example here is the enveloping hug that is so perfect it makes you cry or feel genuinely at home. It’s more than just a hug, it’s a gift from the other person.
3. Finally, I think that there is a more ritualized or … ?? static?? formal?? external imposed on internal?? Basically, you go through this whole big process to change your perspective. If you see things differently, it changes your entire world. I think many rituals are this, opening your eyes to opportunities you’re hoping for. They may have always BEEN there, but now you see them. I think that psychology is also this kind of magic. If you see the terrible things that happen to you as a) not the universe trying to get you, just stuff that would have happened whether you’re there or not; b) a challenge, a test of skill and tolerance to make you stronger, whether the universe makes it that way or you do; and c) possibly the stick of dynamite it took to get you out of your rut so you can change; the terrible stuff somehow doesn’t seem quite as terrible anymore.
I kind of wish I could see plant spirits and house spirits and the like. I’m okay with not, though, because like you said before, pushing past the no is sometimes not a good idea.
I think I remember your pushing past the no, and I want to tell you that I love you with all the Wren that there is, and then I’ll borrow some more if you like. Mom won’t mind.
May 12, 2009 at 8:44 am
Oh, hey, you and Maebius were talking about a word that means the Energy Behind It All as a proper name some time ago… what is that word? I know Ananda, which I think means the Love Without Which The Universe Would Fall Apart, but it wasn’t that word. Do you remember? If not, do you know that word?
May 13, 2009 at 6:35 am
Your blog site is wonderful. I gleaned much. Thank you for sharing yourself.
You visited my blog recently and left a very nice comment. I’m very glad that you enjoyed my writing.
I will return soon.
Blessings,
Amethyst Rains
May 13, 2009 at 6:55 pm
Wren, I’ll have to think about it, but was the word you were questioning “Awen”? Awen pretty nicely defined my ‘Magick’ with a tranditinoal druidic/welsh context.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awen
Excellent questions too, Meme.
May 15, 2009 at 7:36 pm
Wren, the bit about the flawed brain is interesting – yours was defined as “flawed” because you’re not as good at some tasks that this culture finds valuable, but maybe somewhere else with different values would see you as gifted. “If you see things differently, it changes your entire world” – yes!
Amethyst, I’m delighted you stopped by. I think I might have known you once but I’m not sure you’re the same person (a girl I knew in high school who used your nickname and wrote beautifully), but either way I really like your writing and would love to read more of it.
Maebius, I’m racking my brain trying to think of the word and failing at it. Oh well.
May 19, 2009 at 8:53 am
Confirkmed by Wren. “Awen” was the word she was seeking.
May 19, 2009 at 11:29 am
[...] Divinity Over on Nettle’s Blog, a friend of mine Meme asked a few questions about her Definition of Magic. Here’s my thoughts, with his permission. These answers were written up without reading [...]
June 1, 2009 at 2:15 pm
[...] Stickied Over on Nettle’s Blog, a friend of mine Meme asked a few questions about her Definition of Magic. Here’s my thoughts, with his permission. These answers were written up without reading [...]
June 12, 2009 at 3:55 pm
[...] Initially it was posted by Nettle over at her blog and the post really resonated with me. Not because she has the same definition of magic as I do, because our definitions are in fact quite different, but because the post lead me to reflect and ponder my own definition of magic. I encourage my readers to think about your own definitions of magic (if you put faith in that kind of thing). I definitly found it valuable verbalizing my thoughts around magic, spells and the Goddess and the God. If you enjoyed Nettle’s initial post you might also want to check out her follow-up post where she answeres a series of questions put forth to her. [...]